Tapu ( the price that goes on it)

Freedom 49

No fun if it's too easy!
#21
Oh dear. So much wrong advice in this thread.
It is not up to the belediye how much you declare. They have a value for your house which is rather like the banding system in the UK for council tax appraisal which has no relation to the actual amount that you bought it for.

The correct way is to declare the actual amount that you bought or sold it for. However, local practice is that nobody wants to pay this amount so purchaser and seller decide an amount between them. So they agree on an amount that is the belediye's "valuation" as anything less will attract attention.

If you sell within 5 years of purchase you have to pay capital gains tax if your selling price is higher than your declared buying price. So local practice is to declare a low value as when you purchased it otherwise you'll get stung.

If you try to "do the right thing" and declare the actual purchase / selling price you may find that your Turkish buyer / seller will resist, as the transfer tax for him will be higher than he expects. To get round this be prepared to pay his transfer tax as well as your own!

I'm not up for an argument on this with anyone, save to say that I am doing this work all the time and....

It is still VERY much up to the Belediye regarding values declared on new Tapus.
When the 'No Debt' certificate is taken from the Belediye on sale of a property, the agent is given a form that's to be submitted with all papers relevant to producing a new Tapu.
On this form, the Belediye shows quite clearly the MINIMUM value that must be declared on the Tapu for the buyer.

Slowly, slowly, Tapu managers are increasing the values to be a little more realistic as they do now ask, 'How much has the customer paid?'

I have never had a situation where the seller & buyer, Turks, Brits, Scandanavians or any other nationality, have put their heads together to decide what should be declared.
I am being paid to work for both of these people, I do my best for all concerned and find it best overall to follow the advice of the Tapu managers in both the Manavgat and Kuşadası offices.

The buyer always pays the tax due without argument as I would not expect this fee to be met, or even shared by the seller. The seller paid his/her Tapu fees when they bought the property, they should not have to pay again when they sell on.
 
#22
I'm not up for an argument on this with anyone, save to say that I am doing this work all the time and....

It is still VERY much up to the Belediye regarding values declared on new Tapus.
When the 'No Debt' certificate is taken from the Belediye on sale of a property, the agent is given a form that's to be submitted with all papers relevant to producing a new Tapu.
On this form, the Belediye shows quite clearly the MINIMUM value that must be declared on the Tapu for the buyer.

Slowly, slowly, Tapu managers are increasing the values to be a little more realistic as they do now ask, 'How much has the customer paid?'

I have never had a situation where the seller & buyer, Turks, Brits, Scandanavians or any other nationality, have put their heads together to decide what should be declared.
I am being paid to work for both of these people, I do my best for all concerned and find it best overall to follow the advice of the Tapu managers in both the Manavgat and Kuşadası offices.

The buyer always pays the tax due without argument as I would not expect this fee to be met, or even shared by the seller. The seller paid his/her Tapu fees when they bought the property, they should not have to pay again when they sell on.

Hi Freedom 49. I have got to the stage where I am so cynical about the whole property business in Turkey that I now want to be squeaky clean about my purchase so that nothing comes to bite me in the future. When we got our TAPU we were told that the lower price declared ( as compared to the price paid) was not a problem as the figures on the TAPU were decided by the Belediye. However I have now decided that with all the different info I have received and all the different problems that I have had to deal with then I do not want to be caught out with the tax authorities. My dilemma is that when I phoned up I was asked where my property was . I didnt answer there and then as I was concerned it may affect others on the same site. I am at the stage where I am looking after no 1 but by declaring mine would it implicate others ?
 

Freedom 49

No fun if it's too easy!
#23
Hi Freedom 49. I have got to the stage where I am so cynical about the whole property business in Turkey that I now want to be squeaky clean about my purchase so that nothing comes to bite me in the future. When we got our TAPU we were told that the lower price declared ( as compared to the price paid) was not a problem as the figures on the TAPU were decided by the Belediye. However I have now decided that with all the different info I have received and all the different problems that I have had to deal with then I do not want to be caught out with the tax authorities. My dilemma is that when I phoned up I was asked where my property was . I didnt answer there and then as I was concerned it may affect others on the same site. I am at the stage where I am looking after no 1 but by declaring mine would it implicate others ?
Hi,
As far as I am aware, all Tapu values are individually calculated.

3 examples:
A site in Kuşadası where I have sold 14 properties, all identical 5 bed semis, have all had different values on their Tapu.

Another site, just outside of Kuşadası where there are 700 plots, not all built on yet, again, no two Tapus are the same, even with adjoining semis.

Down here in Side, again, new builds on smallish sites, each Tapu has been produced with different values.

I can only speak from experience and as yet I have not known any one person's Tapu effect the value on the next property sold in the same block or on a site.
 

Tommie

Sun Worshipper
#24
Very interesting.

The only issue I can see is that, if tapus do start to show their correct values, does this mean that those owners will pay considerably more council tax than other owners?
 

jearden

Senior Member
#25
Very interesting.

The only issue I can see is that, if tapus do start to show their correct values, does this mean that those owners will pay considerably more council tax than other owners?
Lez explained this clearly in post 16
''It is not up to the belediye how much you declare. They have a value for your house which is rather like the banding system in the UK for council tax appraisal which has no relation to the actual amount that you bought it for.''
 

Tommie

Sun Worshipper
#26
Lez explained this clearly in post 16
''It is not up to the belediye how much you declare. They have a value for your house which is rather like the banding system in the UK for council tax appraisal which has no relation to the actual amount that you bought it for.''

I did understand that.

What was not made clear that those who will have the correct tapu value will be paying considerably more council tax than similar properties at the moment.

I'm sure those less fortunate will not be too happy about that.
 
#27
Hi,
As far as I am aware, all Tapu values are individually calculated.

3 examples:
A site in Kuşadası where I have sold 14 properties, all identical 5 bed semis, have all had different values on their Tapu.

Another site, just outside of Kuşadası where there are 700 plots, not all built on yet, again, no two Tapus are the same, even with adjoining semis.

Down here in Side, again, new builds on smallish sites, each Tapu has been produced with different values.

I can only speak from experience and as yet I have not known any one person's Tapu effect the value on the next property sold in the same block or on a site.
hi again. That reassures me somewhat. Although my family's attitude is that it is up to every owner to do what they think best I would hate to think that the whole site could be targeted by the tax people on account of my action.
With regard to the above, I fail to see the the logic particularly with regard to adjoining semis with exactly the same area measurements being valued differently?
 

tjd

Senior Member
#28
Very interesting.

The only issue I can see is that, if tapus do start to show their correct values, does this mean that those owners will pay considerably more council tax than other owners?
I would say that is correct, larger TAPU value, larger council tax.
 

Tommie

Sun Worshipper
#29
Don't know how many people refrain from paying this tax, as there seems to be no effort on the Belediye to collect outstanding payments, however I'd guess there's going to be even more if they find out they have to pay considerably more.
 

jearden

Senior Member
#30
I would say that is correct, larger TAPU value, larger council tax.
This is not the case. Declared sales prices on tapus are totally separate from council tax valuations which are reviewed periodically. Its on these council tax valuations that you pay 0.1% for dwellings or 0.3% for construction land. On our site we have examples of identical properties with a 10 fold tapu price variation but all paying the same council tax.
 

tjd

Senior Member
#31
This is not the case. Declared sales prices on tapus are totally separate from council tax valuations which are reviewed periodically. Its on these council tax valuations that you pay 0.1% for dwellings or 0.3% for construction land. On our site we have examples of identical properties with a 10 fold tapu price variation but all paying the same council tax.
Again, I'm only going on what I see. We have another English guy on our site who declared full value on Tapu, not the council value or any arranged value. His Council Tax is 1.5 times mine.

Similar on a previous site we owned on, all owners had slightly different declared values on Tapu and each paid slightly different council tax.

If that's not the difference what is?
 
#32
The buyer always pays the tax due without argument as I would not expect this fee to be met, or even shared by the seller. The seller paid his/her Tapu fees when they bought the property, they should not have to pay again when they sell on.
I find this interesting Freedom, are you saying this is the rule in Turkey or just a condition you make your buyers abide by. And what happens if they refuse? Do you also apply this stipulation to the emlak fee as well?
 

Freedom 49

No fun if it's too easy!
#33
I find this interesting Freedom, are you saying this is the rule in Turkey or just a condition you make your buyers abide by. And what happens if they refuse? Do you also apply this stipulation to the emlak fee as well?
Good Morning!

I always accompany the buyer to the bank to pay the tapu Tax and then return the dekont (receipt) to the Tapu office for submission with the other paperwork that is by then almost ready for completion.
Occasionally, the buyer might wait in the tapu office, in which case they give me the cash, I go to the bank and meet up with them on my return.

I've never had a buyer refuse to pay so I've never asked a seller to share this expence.

On the question regarding our fees.
We always take just 3% of the sales price agreed, plus 18% KDV (VAT) on the 3%, which is passed onto the Government.
We are often asked to reduce our fees, most often where Turkish buyers/sellers are involved. I've lived over here for going on 17 years now and have long accepted this 'pazarlık' (bargaining) culture.
It doesn't damage us in any way to occasionally agree to a 2% + KDV fee.

We do lots of resale work, we have many Turkish customers, we get recommends from Turkish customers that feel we've worked well for them. Most of all, I chose to live out here and very much enjoy my work. Fees are always debateable, however as we only work on this 3% margin, Turks and Foreigners alike accept that there's not a lot of room to play with as regards reductions.

Is it not better to sell at a 1% reduction sometimes, resulting in 2 happy customers? Fortunately, money, although it be a necessary evil, it's not the be all and end all of my thinking. :smile:
 
#34
This is very useful information Freedom. With regard your commission, is this 3% for the buyer and 3% for the seller or is it 3% in total? If it is 3% in total, who pays this money?
 

Freedom 49

No fun if it's too easy!
#36
This is very useful information Freedom. With regard your commission, is this 3% for the buyer and 3% for the seller or is it 3% in total? If it is 3% in total, who pays this money?
We take 3% + KDV from both sides.
i.e. Seller & buyer.

Most reputable agents take 3% from both sides in this manner although I'm sure we could all tell of agents taking 5%, 10%, or even 15%. We find it suits our business to keep selling steadilly, keeping everyone's fees at 3%.
 
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